Project Shelter Podcasts
2008-08-31 Hendra and the bats
Background Briefing
Bats carry many of the nasty viruses, even SARS, Ebola, Nipah and Hendra. Scientists think bats may be using these deadly viruses in a war with other species, including horses and man. Reporter Ian Townsend. read less
Latest Episodes for this Channel
2008-08-31 Hendra and the bats
Sat August 30 2008
Bats carry many of the nasty viruses, even SARS, Ebola, Nipah and Hendra. Scientists think bats may be using these deadly viruses in a war with other species, including horses and man. Reporter Ian Townsend. read less
2008-08-24 Defence and discrimination
Sat August 23 2008
American security laws based on where a person was born mean some Australians can't work in defence industries in Australia. It's against our laws - but it's like it or lump it. Reporter Lorena Allam. TRANSCRIPT: THEME Lorena Allam: Imagine we´ve gone back to the bad old days before anti-discrimination laws, where getting a job might have had more to do with your race than with whether you could actually do the work. Well, workplace discrimination is back, particularly in anything to do with Defence technology, and it´s now legal across most of Australia to stop someone taking on certain work because of their country of birth. Kim Sattler: A long-standing employee who did have access to classified material, he happened to have been born in Vietnam, and was in fact adopted by an Australian family, he was educated his whole life in Australia. He was in fact joined the Air Force, he had pretty high security clearances already and that was one of the reasons why he was actually involved in the job. They actually told him that he was to be removed from the site, and proceeded to make him redundant. Lorena Allam: Hello, and welcome to Background Briefing. I´m Lorena Allam. From discrimination on the defence factory floor to treaties with America at the highest level, the way we do defence business is under scrutiny. For the first time in eight years, there´s a major review going on, of the Australian government´s defence policy for the future. And at the same time we´re asking the United States to agree to a defence trade treaty, that will make it easier for Australian companies to turn a profit. In between these high level negotiations, is the issue of Australian citizens not being able to work on American technology because of where they were born, even, as you´ll hear, if they were born in a plane above Sudan. All of these moves will affect Australia´s ability to keep up with our rapidly globalising world. Bob Wylie: I think you´re going to see a tremendous amount of tension on the requirement in the defence trade treaty that we´ve just signed, where Australia has to investigate family ties of people that are going to be given access to the more sensitive technologies that we´re talking about. How that plays out I think is going to be one of the most important political and strategic issues that Australian governments are going to be confronted with. Lorena Allam: That´s Bob Wylie, from the Australian Defence Force Academy, ADFA. There´s an important American law called the International Traffic in Arms Regulations, or ITAR. It covers all contracts Americans have with anyone they call a foreigner, and that means anyone who is not American. The devil in the detail of ITAR means that Australia has to investigate the birthplace of any Australian who has a job working on anything to do with American defence technology. Normally, investigating that would be illegal, but anti-discrimination tribunals here have bent the law so defence companies can do just that. In Australia, if you´re a citizen, you´re Australian, and that´s your nationality, even if you were born in another country. If you want to work in defence, nationality is based not on citizenship but on where you were born. These stark definitions are at the heart of ITAR, the American government´s law on who gets to work anywhere near its defence materials. The list of things classified by ITAR as defence technology is very long, everything from gun belts and bullets to submarines and spacecraft, as well as all the extras you need to maintain them. ITAR also lists the countries the US absolutely will not deal with, and it can change that list at any time. At the moment it includes the following countries: Afghanistan, Belarus, Burma, China, Cyprus, Cuba, Haiti, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, North Korea, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Venezuela, Vietnam, Yemen and Zimbabwe. Director of Law Reform and Social Justice at the ANU, Simon Rice. Simon Rice: At the beginning, if you go back to the ITAR, the American regulations, it simply says US and Foreign. Then you do get refinements of Foreign. The first refinement is `national of the importing country´, that would be Australia, and then you start to get `dual nationals´, who are Australians and somebody else, but beyond the pale altogether, are `nationals of proscribed countries´, and they are the enemy. Lorena Allam: And even an Australian citizen can be seen as the enemy, if you were born in any of those proscribed countries. This contradicts our laws about `nationality´ and `citizenship´, says Simon Rice. Simon Rice: America simply assumes if you were born somewhere then we treat you as having that nationality, whether in fact the country where you were born treats you as a national, we´re not concerned. If you were born in Syria, then we will treat you as Syrian. Lorena Allam: Which clearly conflicts with Australian law. Simon Rice: Yes, it does. Because in Australia, we distinguish nationality and national origin, and we don´t jump to conclusions that where you were born means you´re hostile or an enemy. Lorena Allam: Well ITAR regulations insist that we do, and the anti-discrimination tribunals have agreed that sometimes there can be exemptions to the Australian laws. Many people are unhappy about that, as you´ll hear, and it´s a tension that´s recognised in the US Senate. In order to comply with US law, Australian defence companies have come up with some unusual solutions, like asking employees from the highest managers to the cleaners, to wear badges. Simon Rice: Perhaps what people don´t understand is what that actually means on the factory floor. It means that people´s race is being identified. People are being badged; people are walking around wearing their overalls with small badges on them saying, effectively, I am, or I am not an Australian. Lorena Allam: But we´re wearing badges. I´ve got my badge here that says `ABC´. What do you mean, isn´t that part of normal security procedure? Simon Rice: I don´t think it´s part of normal security procedure for people to involuntarily be badged according to their country of birth, to have to proclaim to their workplace where they were born. Lorena Allam: Simon Rice, from the ANU College of Law. Woman: In the middle of a combat zone, you need the right information at the right time. Man: When vital decision-making information ... Lorena Allam: The four big defence companies in Australia are now allowed to hire, fire and re-deploy people based on where they were born. The companies are Raytheon, Boeing, Thales, and BAE. Here´s their promo: Woman: BAE Systems. Woman: We live in a world of unprecedented challenges and it´s the armed forces´ job to provide security in this new world. They need systems to deliver solutions, that allow them to do their jobs effectively and safely, to give them an edge, a tangible advantage, like partnerships that provide the right solutions for the right people, at the right time. You have cutting-edge technology, the people are great, the leadership is superb ... Man: We are Raytheon. We are Raytheon... Lorena Allam: These companies employ thousands of people and turn over hundreds of millions of dollars in Australia. The companies argue that they can´t do business in Australia unless they are given exemptions from our laws on race discrimination. Anti-discrimination tribunals around the country publish their decisions on their websites. Background Briefing has read through all of those decisions. The reasoning is almost identical, even if the language varies. The Victorian Tribunal says: Reader: One suspects that ITAR is misconceived. But then, I rather doubt that the United States government will back down from ITAR in the face of a decision from the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal. Sometimes you simply cannot ignore the elephant in the room. Like it or not, the United States is the world power. Lorena Allam: That´s an extract from the Victorian decision. In all five jurisdictions, the tribunals accepted a few major points without question: Unless Australian companies comply with US laws, they face massive fines, possibly millions of dollars. They might be denied access to US technology in the future, crippling their chances of competing in this cut-throat market. Without access to US technology, they´d be unable to complete the work and then be in breach of their contracts with the Australian government. And they´d have to lay off staff. Before it was bought out by Thales, ADI claimed 40% of its workforce would have to be redeployed or sacked if it didn´t get the race discrimination exemption. ADI told the tribunals it had 49 ITAR contracts with the Australian government, worth about $400-million, and losing contracts that lucrative, would damage the Australian economy. The companies have got their way in five States so far, but the issue is still up in the air in the ACT and the Northern Territory. Everybody is in a difficult situation, says Simon Rice. Simon Rice: The tribunals are confronted by an impossible choice, and the employers are only there because they´re being forced by export regulations. Nobody would be doing this if at its source, America was not so dogmatic and inflexible in its demands that the world see things in terms of US and foreign. Lorena Allam: The US would say though that they have no choice but to safeguard their own military technology, and that foreign nationals are a threat to US security. Simon Rice: I agree that they have to protect their own security and their defence technology. What I find it hard to accept is that they can simply assume that a threat will come from anyone who is not a US citizen, point blank, draw the line. It defies logic. There are endless examples. People who were in Iran under the Shah and then migrated to Britain after the overthrow of the Shah would be treated as enemies now, because they were born in Iran, although it was then a friendly Iran. Timothy McVeigh was an American. The American regulations don´t even ask the kind of American you are. He would be all right. They would be happy to have Timothy McVeigh handle their defence material because he´s American. Now there´s a clear illustration of how crude a measure the security steps are. Lorena Allam: Simon Rice, Law Professor at the ANU. The Australian government has taken a very pragmatic view of the situation. America is our powerful ally, we need to stay close to get the best defence technology, and Australia wants the business opportunities. On the phone from Canberra, Head of the Industry Division in the Defence Department, Kerry Clark. Kerry Clark: The US, after 9/11 made some determinations that they would like to exclude access to their equipment for certain sorts of nations. And we´ve accepted it, that we would make sure that the people that are dealing with that equipment in Australia comply with the same rules. If you were dealing with classified equipment, then it makes sense that we control access to it. If you´ve got a highly specialised tank and you´re having it serviced, you don´t want every man, woman and child running all over it, copying the equipment, or in the worst case, fiddling with it in such a way as to make it unserviceable when it´s needed for operations. Lorena Allam: But America´s tough rules have created tensions around the world, and there have been some strange outcomes. For example, in Canada, they´ve just settled a case involving a man born in Haiti but who had been a Canadian citizen for 30 years. Because he was born in Haiti (which is seen as an enemy country) he was denied a job with a helicopter manufacturer. The American regulations assume that no matter what kind of citizenship you have, or how long you have lived away from home, your loyalties are always going to be based on your country of birth. Some Canadian companies get around race restrictions by giving their foreign-born, but Canadian, employees paid leave during the time of work on an ITAR-related contract. Even in the US itself, academics have long complained that ITAR is killing off research, especially research by foreign students, as you´ll hear in this reading . In 2000, the Dean of Research at Stanford University, Charles Kruger, wrote a letter to his local Senator to complain that it only took one sentence in the ITAR regulations. Reader: ... to ban a Stanford graduate student, who is Chinese, from continuing his work with spacecraft control algorithms. It was enough to prevent the world´s expert in proton monitors who is Irish, from being in the same room as the equipment he designed when American researchers bolted it onto a satellite. Lorena Allam: The ITAR regulations were considerably tightened after the 9/11 attacks, and a great many students and researchers not born in America were either deported or severely restricted in their work. Charles Kruger´s letter from Stanford University listed a number of other examples, including this one. Reader: A Turkish national graduate student has developed a new hybrid rocket fuel that we are in the process of patenting. United Technologies read the student´s work and wanted to fund further testing of the fuel, but insisted that they could not discuss the student´s concept with the student unless Stanford obtained a licence under ITAR. Lorena Allam: People have been sacked or denied job opportunities in Australia, too. Simon Rice. Simon Rice: ITAR says to a company such as Boeing in Australia, `If you get our material, then don´t let anybody other than an Australian or American, see it or even be in its presence. You can´t have on the factory floor, somebody who is the wrong nationality.´ Lorena Allam: Needless to say, the unions are keeping an eye on all this. In Canberra two union members were hit hard. They worked at the tracking station at Tidbindilla, Canberra´s Deep Space Communication Complex. The station is run by Raytheon. Raytheon is the US defence transnational famous for its `bunker busters´ and `patriot missiles´. Raytheon had two workers at Tidbinbilla who didn´t fit ITAR´s bill. One has since lost his job. From the peak body, UnionsACT, this is Kim Sattler. Kim Sattler: One was a long-standing employee who did have access to classified material; he happened to have been born in Vietnam, and was in fact adopted by an Australian family. He was educated his whole life in Australia. He was in fact joined the Air Force, he had pretty high security clearances already, and that was one of the reasons why he was actually involved in the job. They actually applied the ITAR arrangements and told him that he was to be removed from the site, and proceeded to make him redundant. Lorena Allam: What happened to that employee? Kim Sattler: He will probably not work again. He went through terrible stress and trauma through the whole exercise, because he had been a long-standing employee, well respected by others out there. There was no issue with his job, it was pure accident of birth. Lorena Allam: That man took his case to the Human Rights Commission, but it was settled privately. Background Briefing attempted to contact him, but he did not want to comment, and neither did his former employer, Raytheon. The second case involved a man whose job is loading materials in and out of the deep space complex at Tidbinbilla. His parents are Greek, but he himself happened to be born in a plane as it flew across the Sudan. According to the way America defines nationality, that meant this man is Sudanese. Kim Sattler. Kim Sattler: Now he continues to work there, but he´s now had his job completely changed, so that he does not come into contact with particular classified material. So he has to be marked that way. Lorena Allam: How is he marked on the job? Kim Sattler: By wearing a badge. Lorena Allam: Because according to the ITAR regulations, he was born in Sudan? Kim Sattler: When in fact he was born in a plane, hovering over Sudan. Lorena Allam: That´s Kim Sattler, from Unions ACT. In America, the company Raytheon, promotes itself this way. Raytheon promo: The community views Raytheon as a great corporate citizen, a company that is highly ethical, a company that you can trust. We care! We care about your success. And the thing we can´t lose sight of is ... Lorena Allam: Background Briefing contacted all four big defence companies in Australia: Raytheon, Boeing, BAE and Thales. None of them would agree to a formal interview, or make a formal statement, but they did confirm some issues. Two company managers who spoke to us said they´re only doing what the American government insists on, through the ITAR regulations. It´s actually not good PR for the companies. And most importantly, it can be expensive to have to go to court or tribunals when issues arise. One company spent $2-million on legal fees just in West Australia to get permission to have exemption from its anti-discrimination laws. The exemptions cause unnecessary tension in the workplace. From Unions ACT, Kim Sattler. Kim Sattler: People out in the workplace are quite concerned about whether they are required to reveal their country of birth. Lorena Allam: How many of your members might fall into that category who are working at Tidbinbilla? Kim Sattler: We´re not entirely sure, because we don´t generally do an ethnicity check on our membership, we take one and all, and we don´t actually keep those sorts of records of country of birth. Lorena Allam: Well you told the ACT Commissioner that you believed it was racial profiling. Kim Sattler: It is indeed racial profiling, you couldn´t call it anything else, where they really have to know exactly the country of birth and they refuse to recognise that nationality or changes in someone´s life now makes them less of a security risk, or not a security risk at all, because in fact they are Australian citizens. Lorena Allam: Kim Sattler, from UnionsACT. In Victoria, the big American company, Boeing, was given permission to discriminate on grounds of race a few years ago. Boeing employs thousands of workers, most of whom are covered by the Manufacturing Workers Union, the AMWU. National Secretary, Dave Oliver, says Boeing promised no workers would lose pay or conditions, but: Dave Oliver: There´s one example of a dual citizen Iranian who was working in a particular area and was unable to get the clearance that was required. As a result of this, he has been removed from that particular area, but I understand his wages and conditions and status has been maintained, but as a result of this his career path has been a glass ceiling imposed in the area where he now works. The big Australian companies have to spend a lot of time implementing the ITAR rules and regulations; whole departments are given over to handling compliance. One manager told Background Briefing it can get so complicated, sometimes even the Americans aren´t sure how it works. ITAR video: In a dark corner of a hamburger joint that´s seen better days, your German client ... Lorena Allam: This is part of an online training video, designed to help companies meet ITAR´s though export rules. ITAR video: ... Something doesn´t seem right. You remember your manager saying something about export licences and maybe foreign nationals. Sounds pretty melodramatic, doesn´t it? Don´t worry, I´m here to help. I´m Blanca, Max Blanca, compliance detective! Lorena Allam: That´s Max, the training video detective, talking about compliance with ITAR, the International Traffic in Arms Regulations, America´s laws about who can and can´t access its defence technology. ITAR video: Here´s an example. A scenario might feature a situation involving the hiring of a foreign national. The action that may be required based on this situation is that the human resources and the hiring manager may be required to consult with the export control department so they can ensure the proper licence or other export authority is in place. Lorena Allam: Max Blanca, compliance detective. The reality is that defence is a ruthless business, and the Americans dominate. If their rules are too tough, then it´s too bad. From the ANU, Hugh White. Hugh White: I don´t want to make the US out sound too heartless in this, individual US officials I´m sure would shake their head and say `Yes, that´s a very difficult problem for you´, and it is a problem for us. I think it´s unlikely that the United States is going to compromise much on that sort of thing. Lorena Allam: And so presumably we have to play by the US rules in accessing that defence technology? Hugh White: Well that´s right. The United States is in a very good competitive position, and actually for two reasons. The first is that United States defence companies don´t really depend on exports for the viability of their business. The overwhelming demand for US-built defence equipment are the US armed forces, so it´s not an imperative for the US to sell to others, it´s icing on the cake. That means that there´s not a great loss to the United States if the kind of constraints that they attempt to put on defence exports through processes like the ITARs, drives some buyers away. If the United States system puts requirements on us, we´ve got very little choice but to comply. Lorena Allam: Hugh White. So far, Tasmania is the only State that hasn´t given the companies a race discrimination exemption, because the companies haven´t applied there. But in the territories the battle is far from over. Last November the ACT´s Human Rights Commission turned Raytheon down in its attempt to be given permission to discriminate. But the company went to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal, and won. This week, the Human Rights Commission announced it has put the matter before the ACT Supreme Court. The Northern Territory is watching the developments in the ACT closely. Raytheon has many interests there, it runs Pine Gap, and it has staff in Darwin, too. Last year, Raytheon applied to the N.T Anti-Discrimination Commission for permission to discriminate on the grounds of race. Just as the Commissioner, Tony Fitzgerald, was about to announce his decision, Raytheon withdrew its application. Background Briefing was told that Raytheon withdrew because it wanted to focus on winning the battle in the ACT, and might go back to the N.T. later, hoping by then every other jurisdiction will have fallen into line. That would leave the Northern Territory as the last to hold out, but Tony Fitzgerald´s ready for them. He had his finding, so he made it public. Tony Fitzgerald: I had specific concerns in relation to the way the evidence had been presented, because what they were saying was that there were economic ramifications for Australia if the exemption wasn´t granted. And then by implication they were asking me to assume that those economic ramifications would simply transfer to the Territory, and basically they hadn´t provided me with sufficient evidence to support that contention. Tony Fitzgerald says his job is to balance competing public interests, but in the Northern Territory the public interest in race is likely to be more important than jobs in defence. Tony Fitzgerald: I found in relation to the N.T. that there´s a heightened public interest in matters of race and matters of protection against racial discrimination, and that it´s likely to be higher in the Territory than other States because 44% of families in the Territory speak a language other than English at home. So my contention is that it´s especially inappropriate in the N.T, which is so race conscious, to approve an exemption application authorising racial distinction in employment. The primary consideration in recruitment should be ability to do the job. Lorena Allam: But for America, the primary consideration in defence recruitment is your country of birth, your race. Anti-Discrimination Commissioner of the Northern Territory, Tony Fitzgerald, says if Raytheon reapplies they´ll have to give him a bit more detail to go on. Tony Fitzgerald: Hopefully they´ll come back with some more cogent, comprehensive evidence in support of their application. You know, they´ve made assumptions about the defence contracts aren´t fulfilled, then the national security will be affected. Well they contended that that was the case, but didn´t support it. Now maybe they´ll come back with some specific information about national security, or maybe they´ll come back with some more economic information about exactly how many employees they´ve got who are engaged in ITAR-controlled US materials. I mean I received none of that. I don´t think it will change the balancing exercise, I mean it´ll still be the exercise in considering an exemption will be a balance of these competing public interests. Lorena Allam: Northern Territory Anti-Discrimination Commissioner, Tony Fitzgerald. Today, we´re taking a look at the price Australia pays for being inside what the US calls its `secure circle´. That circle is growing ever tighter. The US fears terrorism and it also wants to protect its military advantage, and defence technology is big business. The US attempt to keep control over that technology might seem like overkill, until you read some of the 32 major cases it´s busted just in the last year. And some of them were born Americans. A woman called Jerri Stringer conspired with her son, former U.S. Air Force sergeant, Leonard Schenk, to steal restricted military night vision goggles, aviation helmets, and other equipment from the Air Force and sell them to overseas buyers. Dawn and Darrin Hanna allegedly received $9-million to supply telecommunications gear to Iraq. The U.S has caught people trying to sell surface-to-air missiles, sub-machine guns, military source codes, and nuclear secrets. In Utah, two men were charged with attempting to sell fighter jet components over the Internet. One of the elements in this global issue is the way people are now moving around the world to study, or work, or live. Speaking at the Lowy Institute in February, Michael Fullilove. Michael Fullilove: I think governments like the Australian government, are enabling and licensing people to live transnational lives by liberalising their economies, by encouraging multiculturalism and dual citizenship and the like. Lorena Allam: While travel can broaden the mind, at the same time the new technologies might narrow it, says Michael Fullilove. Michael Fullilove: We have the internet, email, blogs, skype, facebook and satellite TV in your native tongue, all of which enable people to maintain the currency of their networks and to sort of synchronise their life with what´s happening in the homeland. Lorena Allam: It´s a global phenomenon which is making countries nervous about the potential and the politics of these new communities of migrants, or diasporas. Michael Fullilove: Host countries are becoming increasingly aware and often uncomfortable about the new communities in their midst. It´s not just the Cuban-Americans any more, it´s the Iranians of Los Angeles, or `Teherangeles´ as people call it. The Mayor of Beverly Hills these days is an Iranian-American. Depending on your viewpoint, London is either `London-grad´, or `London-istan´, a tabloid term to describe the presence of Muslims. Lorena Allam: But while they might inspire intolerance, Michael Fullilove says these new diasporas aren´t necessarily a security threat. These world-wide webs of migration, as he calls them, are less likely to be a security threat. Michael Fullilove: Certainly, migratory flows can be conduits for terrorists and it´s also true that diasporas have a long history of providing arms and funds and shelter to insurgents fighting in their homelands, like the Tamil diaspora and the Tigers, or for that matter Irish-Americans and the IRA. But on the question of al Qa´eda style terrorism in the West, I´m persuaded by the analysis of Oliver Roy and others, who argue that that radicalisation behind 9/11 and those kinds of attacks, is not caused by diasporas, but to some extent anyway it´s related to the absence of diasporas. Most of the perpetrators in 9/11 and those other attacks were radically disconnected from the country of their origin or their parents´ country of origin, as well as being disconnected from the country in which they live. They were socially atomised and alienated and they had doubts about their faith and their identity and how to live as a good Muslim in the West, and that made them easy prey for fundamentalist imams. So I don´t buy the argument at all that it is diasporas that are responsible for that kind of terrorism. Lorena Allam: Michael Fullilove, speaking at the Lowy Institute early this year. So, while preventing terrorism may only be a small part of the ITAR regulations, and while they´re not only about race, it is mostly about the US protecting its defence trade monopoly. And interestingly, this is where its secure circle is at its weakest. The biggest violations of ITAR and security regulations are the American companies themselves. These aren´t government agencies, they´re private companies increasingly involved in handling defence technology, and that means a lot of `classified´ material is in the hands of civilians. That material is often `intangible´: it´s not a physical object, but it could be a computer code, or a piece of software, or even a whispered trade secret. All the big defence companies have been caught out by ITAR, sometimes stealing from each other. In 2006, Boeing had to pay out an astonishing $615-million, to resolve allegations that it stole trade secrets from its main rival, Lockheed-Martin, in order to win rocket contracts worth billions of dollars. That whopping fine is the biggest ever imposed on a defence contractor in the U.S. This is how it was reported on National Public Radio in America. Newsreader: The Boeing Company and the Justice Department have reached a tentative settlement to close two criminal cases. The agreement would get the aircraft maker back in the good graces of Washington, and appears to set a record for penalties paid by a Pentagon contractor. Lorena Allam: In the Public Radio report, the Project on Government Oversight, or POGO, a watchdog group based in Washington, says the way the US does defence business means it only has itself to blame. Scott Amey. Scott Amey: The government has pretty much placed itself in a position where it has to continually buy goods and services from contractors that violate federal law and federal regulations. The government has created its own monster, and it can only blame itself. Lorena Allam: Scott Amey, speaking on National Public Radio in the U.S. Boeing ended up in trouble over a violation in Australia, too. Newsreader: Australia´s new airborne radar surveillance system is a step closer. The first of four Boeing 737s to be modified under the Defence Force´s Wedgetail Project ... Lorena Allam: In 1999, Australia forked out about a billion dollars to buy six high-tech surveillance planes, called the Wedgetail. Boeing won the bid to supply these spy planes to the Australian Air Force. Man: This is good work for Australian people, you know. We get experience, we get skills, that experience and skill sets allows the aerospace industry in Australia to provide that strategic depth, that strategic support that we need in the Royal Australian Air Force. Lorena Allam: But in 2001, the US charged Boeing with violating US military secrets and said it should never have offered the technology to Australia in the first place. Part of Boeing´s punishment was a $US4-million fine, and it had to appoint a `compliance officer´ for three years, to make sure it behaved itself. Newsreader: The Wedgetail aircraft will be able to use powerful scanners to monitor Australia´s coastline, or control air and sea battles. The six planes are expected to be in service by 2008. Lorena Allam: The Wedgetail aircraft are now three years overdue. And they´re not expected to be finished before 2010. The delay has cost Boeing a fortune, and needless to say the Australian government´s not impressed. In June, the Defence Minister, Joel Fitzgibbon declared the project was of `high concern´, and that Boeing had to `lift their game´ to get the aircraft finished. The U.S. government has Australia by the scruff of the neck. If companies don´t comply with ITAR regulations, the US will simply withhold the defence materials Australia needs. Australia shouldn´t fight these regulations, but embrace them, says Professor of Law at West Point, Roland Trope. This is a reading from a paper he wrote early this year. Reader: This is a zero tolerance universe. The US government remains highly concerned that unauthorised access to and releases of sensitive technical data could seriously jeopardise its national security. And such concerns have intensified in response to recent security breaches by US defence contractors. Lorena Allam: Professor Trope accepts that US companies themselves will breach the regulations, but says Australia has to get tough too. Reader: ITAR control follows across borders. ITAR continues to apply even after the relevant defence article leaves the shores of the United States or enters the mind of an Australian citizen. It would be beneficial for Australian policy-makers to create a regime that mirrored the ITAR standard. This would facilitate understanding and trust, communication and negotiation, and finally, a transfer of much-needed technology. The best way to facilitate Australian access to advanced US military technologies is to tighten its regulatory and contractual measures. Lorena Allam: An extract from a paper by military lawyer, Roland Trope. Australia has not put the money and skills into developing our own defence industry, so we have no choice but to buy American, says Hugh White. Hugh White: The good news is that the US continues to produce very good technology which is very effective and which therefore provides a very significant contribution to Australia´s capacity to defend itself. The bad news is that we have to pay increasing amounts for that, we have to manage some of the problems that we´ve been talking about, but also it does raise questions for the kind of posture that Australia can develop and sustain in the future. Lorena Allam: Hugh White warns the deal might suit us now, but it´s going to cost us a lot more than we think in the long run. Hugh White: As the equipment becomes more complicated, as our access to some elements of the technology becomes more and more restricted, we rely more and more on the United States to support and maintain the equipment whilst we´re conducting operations, and that does limit our self-reliance to conduct military operations independently of the United States. JSF promo: The F-35 Lightning-2 is the fifth-generation Stealth advanced strike fighter. Lorena Allam: Hugh White uses the example of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, the high-tech stealth aircraft the Australian government´s thinking of buying to replace our old fighter planes. This is from a promotional video for the plane. JSF promo: Beginning in 2010, newly-assigned F-35 pilots and maintainers from the Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, the United Kingdom ... Lorena Allam: Much of the high-tech wizardry used in the plane might not be available to Australian industry because it´s US top secret. So, Hugh White says, even if we get the technology, we´re going to need the Americans to help us fix it. Hugh White: That´s right. I mean if you look at the current processes we´re going through to select a replacement for the old FA-10s, and F1-11 aircraft, we´re looking at the Joint Strike Fighter, it´s an immensely sophisticated aircraft, and we may well find that once the Joint Strike Fighter has been delivered, there are kinds of tasks that need to be performed to upgrade it, to maintain it, even to sustain it in week-to-week operations, which won´t be available to Australian industry, and that will mean that increasingly our capacity to sustain operations using those capabilities for more than a day or two, or maybe a couple of weeks, will be limited by the US willingness to provide us with access to the systems needed to keep the thing in the air and in combat. Lorena Allam: Hugh White. KIRRIBILLI HOUSE PRESS CONFERENCE/WELCOME Lorena Allam: That´s our former Prime Minister, John Howard, welcoming George Bush to his first APEC press conference in Sydney last year. The two leaders signed the US-Australia Defence Trade Treaty. John Howard: We have agreed to a number of new arrangements, including a treaty relating to exchanges concerning defence equipment which effectively will remove layers of bureaucracy for defence industries in Australia, acquiring American technology and we´ll enter that market on the same basis as do companies coming from the United Kingdom. Lorena Allam: The treaty´s designed to streamline the process Australian companies have to go through to comply with US regulations. US President, George Bush. George Bush: We did sign a treaty today that was important, that´s the US-Australia Defence Trade Co-operation Treaty. I think John put it best, it helps cut through the bureaucracy so that we can transform our forces better, share technology better, and frankly, enable our creative sectors to work together to develop new defence capabilities to defend ourselves. And it´s an important treaty, it took a while to get here, but we were able to get it done, and I think you for giving me a chance to sign it here. Lorena Allam: From the Defence Department in Canberra, Kerry Clark says the treaty will make business so much easier. Kerry Clark: Firstly I think the treaty is a great step forward, because it requires fewer licences to be given. The treaty will create an environment called an `approved community´. Say you and I are checked out to be who we say we are, and are actually capable and responsible people for dealing with this security equipment. You and I would then be in the approved community. You and I could then exchange information between each other, without having to refer back to the US State Department. Lorena Allam: But the Treaty isn´t in force yet, and it´s unlikely to happen any time soon. It has to get approval from the US Senate, and those hearings have been going on for months. US Senator Robert Lugar: With the permission of the Chairman I´ve been asked to commence the hearing ... Lorena Allam: In May, the Treaty got a hearing at the US Senate Committee on Foreign Relations. The Chair of that Committee is Democrat Senator, Joe Biden. This is what he had to say, firstly about ITAR: Joe Biden: You know, this has never been a very popular piece of legislation. Our allies and friends have found it difficult, and there´ve been many attempts over the years to amend it, to accommodate changes. But there also is an old saying, which goes `the devil´s in the details´, and there surely a lot of details in this treaty, at least I don´t know enough about. Lorena Allam: What Senator Biden wanted to know was how the treaty would control who gets holds of sensitive information. Joe Biden: We don´t know, you don´t lay it out to the best of my knowledge, what the mechanism will be. If someone comes now and says, `I want to become part of the approved´ - what´s the term - `approved community´. You know, I´m not questioning the integrity of our British and Australian allies, but there are middle-men involved here. And so why is there not, or are you going to provide for us, the criteria you´re going to look at? That´s what I´m trying to get at here: how do we know? Lorena Allam: In the Senate hearings, the Republicans also had their say, and they weren´t happy either. Republican Senator Robert Lugar said he isn´t being told enough to convince him to sign the Treaty. Robert Lugar: You´ve asked that we ratify these expeditiously and I think the Chairman and members of the committee are eager to do that, but it could become a mission impossible if we´re not really able to get from you or the Administration, things we need. Lorena Allam: And then, after hours of discussion of the `devil in the details´, Joe Biden had this to say. Joe Biden: By the way I´m much less politic than my friend is - until we work out the matter that the Senator raises there´s going to be no treaty. It´s not going to come out of this committee. So I thank you very, very much and we are adjourned. Thank you. (GAVEL) Lorena Allam: That´s Senator Joe Biden, turning Australia down at the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee in May this year. Three months later, it´s still not settled. And that´s not a surprise, says defence commentator, Bob Wylie. Bob Wylie: Now what you´ve got at work there, this is a Democrat Senator who is concerned about the prerogatives of the Senate, and the Congress in treaty-making in the United States. And if you look at the history of various attempts to change these defence trade laws and the ITAR, they have fallen foul of Congressional interests for something over 12 years. Lorena Allam: Bob Wylie. Even if it´s signed, it won´t make much difference to the race discrimination on the factory floor. Simon Rice. Simon Rice: There is no mention in the current Treaty of any change to the discrimination provisions. In fact the current Treaty confirms the continuing discrimination provisions. Lorena Allam: So you don´t think there´s any interest here or in the US to resolve this matter? Simon Rice: No. So far the tribunals unwillingly and perhaps unwittingly, have been doing the job for them. For as long as the tribunals keep granting exemptions, then why should the government bother complicating their negotiations with a little discrimination provision? It´s being avoided, in any event. Lorena Allam: The nature of the dilemma needs to be put to the Australian people, says Bob Wylie. Bob Wylie: The Americans don´t care about the adjustments that we have to make, and in a sense, well that´s life. The ITAR and our attitude, the Defence Trade Treaty that we´ve signed, says as much about us as it says about the United States. We get innovation on the cheap. And if we want to be more independent of the US in this area, then we have to be prepared to invest much more of our treasure, much more of our talent, and to take much larger risks than we´ve been prepared to take to date. And I think that´s the way we should be portraying the debate, not looking at the mechanisms of oh, the U.S administration´s evil and that ITAR is an instrument of the devil, it´s a choice we make, and we need to acknowledge that that´s very much a matter for Australian governments, and the Australian citizenry. Lorena Allam: Well the Australian government is writing its defence agenda right now, in the form of a White Paper. A White Paper is a major briefing for the Government on the state of our defence forces, and the possible strategic issues facing us in the future. There´s a series of public hearings going on around the country until September. Defence White Papers don´t come around often. The last one was over eight years ago. Hugh White was involved in the last one. The defence landscape, he says, has changed radically since then, and it´s going to change more. Hugh White: Well I think the really deep question for Australia in this area, is the extent to which we can expect to be able to continue to rely on US technology as the foundation for our security. If, as is possible, the US becomes a less dominant power in Asia, and therefore the nature of the Australia-US alliance starts to change, and if that´s right, then building into our force structure this very deep reliance on the United States, not just to supply equipment but to co-operate in the management and operation of that equipment, does carry some strategic risks. The dilemma is, if we don´t buy such equipment from the United States, it´s hard to see where we do buy it from. So there´s no neat way out of this dilemma. Lorena Allam: Hugh White says this government needs to make some tough decisions. Hugh White: I think one of the core questions for Australian defence policy as the government looks at the new White Paper, is to what extent does Australia try and build independent capabilities, capabilities that give us independent strategic weight in Asia, which we might need if the US-Australia relationship changes shape and becomes less intimate in coming decades, then that has some very significant implications for the way in which we develop our capabilities and the kinds of dependence that we´re prepared to accept on the United States. Now whether or not the government´s White Paper process really will do that, whether they´ll be prepared to go so far as to raise those very deep questions, or whether they´ll rather produce a document which is a little bit more description, and defence of the status quo, will be up to the political courage of the Prime Minister and the Defence Minister. THEME Lorena Allam: Background Briefing´s Co-ordinating Producer is Linda McGinness. The Researcher is Anna Whitfeld. Technical production this week is by Mark Don. The Executive Producer is Kirsten Garrett. I´m Lorena Allam and this is ABC Radio National. THEME read less
2008-08-17 Paying to be permanent
Sat August 16 2008
A high number of people who get Australian permanent resident visas don´t get the skilled jobs they are trained for. And there are scams aplenty in the world of international students looking for any way to stay here. Reporter, Hagar Cohen. TRANSCRIPT: THEME Hagar Cohen: Just in the past few years, Australia´s population swelled to an extraordinary extent. Nearly 200,000 migrants will enter Australia this year alone. That´s the highest number in Australian migration history. The vast majority of the people migrating are educated and reasonably well off. They´re being encouraged to settle here permanently to work in skilled positions that aren´t being filled by locals. Many become permanent residents after first studying here. Because as graduates, they can get high points towards their skilled visa. The problem is there is a significant number of people who´ve been granted permanent residency, but who are not able to get jobs using the skills they´ve trained for. Mostly, these are people for whom English is not their first language. From Monash University, Dr Bob Birrell. Bob Birrell: It´s very disappointing that the Labor government, very soon after gaining power, ramp up the numbers to the level it has, without properly assessing whether the existing system is working. Hagar Cohen: Bob Birrell´s research has found that among skilled migrants who don´t have English as their first language, one-third don´t find professional work. Bob Birrell: Amongst the permanent entry skilled migrants, those who come from non-English speaking background countries, that´s predominantly East Asia and the subcontinent of India, of those who arrived between 2001 and 2006 who had degree qualifications in fields like accounting, engineering, only 20% to 30% by 2006 were employed at the managerial or professional level. Hagar Cohen: What are they doing then, because the government presumably is bringing in large numbers of skilled migrants to fill particular skills shortages in particular industries. Bob Birrell: Well some of them are trying to upgrade their qualifications, improve their English, but most are working in semi-professional service occupations many listeners will be aware are driving taxis. Hagar Cohen: The Rudd government has increased skilled migration by 37,000 extra people. Minister of Immigration, Chris Evans. Chris Evans: My view is that we have to have better control over the skills stream to ensure that we are bringing in the skills we need. And I think there has been a tendency for people to try and go for the softest option, the easiest course which might allow them to them to apply for permanent residency down the track. I am concerned to make sure that we are only bringing in the people whose skills we need, and it is true to say there´s been an over-representation in some of these areas of occupations like hairdressers, and that´s because they show up on the list of skills needs in the country. Hagar Cohen: Hello, and welcome to ABC Radio National. I´m Hagar Cohen. Today Background Briefing looks at how skilled migration is working. Skilled migrants mostly come to Australia from the UK. The second largest group is from India, and the third is from China. To settle here permanently they must have skills which are needed for the Australian economy, and accountants, construction workers, health professionals and engineers are especially sought after. In Sydney, the Auburn Council recently organised a seminar to bring together people who had knowledge about how to apply for jobs, and the skilled migrants who are looking for work. Man: Well I am a migrant. I consider myself an Australian resident. I love this country, it´s a good country, very nice people, a good culture. I hope to be here all my life. Hagar Cohen: There were many people here full of hope for the future. Man: OK, I´m from Hong Kong. I have studied electronic engineering and I work as an engineering manager in one of the international manufacturers in Hong Kong, and I moved to Australia for six weeks. Hagar Cohen: You moved here six weeks ago? Man: Yes, six weeks ago. I hope I can find a job within a few months. Hagar Cohen: A State government representative spoke about the importance of English skills and writing better resumes. There was also a recruitment agent who emphasised that local work experience is more important than academic results. Most of the migrants at the seminar had a great deal of skill and work experience, but from their home country. Sima Sandu: I´m Sima Sandu from India, and I have done a PhD in Chemistry, and I´ve been teaching in India to undergraduate students. Hagar Cohen: Sima´s profession as a scientist is in demand in Australia but she can´t find work. At this seminar, one of the speakers told Sima that her qualifications are so high that she might have difficulty finding a starting job in Australia, and that maybe she should play down just how well educated she is. Sima Sandu: Maybe the local experience, and the consultant, she was saying that maybe I´m over-qualified for some of the jobs, because I´m applying for each and every job, those which are of low level even, they´re not according to my qualifications, and then I´m applying. Maybe they think that it´s too high, and if I apply in the university, most of the time I think there´ll be internal candidates already working there, who already have the local experience, and they think that I´m from overseas and though my qualifications have been assessed. But I think the main drawback is the local experience. Hagar Cohen: The employment agent here was suggesting that you hide your qualifications so that you´re not over-qualified. How do you feel about that? Sima Sandu: I feel bad, but I have tried that also. I have tried that; even then I´m not able to get it. But I just can´t complete my resume without that, because I spent eight years for that, and I worked so hard for that degree. Hagar Cohen: Sima came to Australia with her husband, who does have a job, and she is now dependent on him for support. Others at this conference who came to Australia on their own, are doing jobs like washing cars, driving taxis or packing goods. Man: I´m from India. I have an air-conditioning degree and I have 15 years experience in my field, but still I can´t find a job here. Hagar Cohen: What kind of work are you doing at the moment? Man: Now I am working in a warehouse, picking, packing. Certainly for surviving we have to do that. That´s it. Hagar Cohen: The way people qualify to stay here permanently as skilled migrants is by collecting 120 migration points. Being able to speak really good English is worth 25 points. Anyone who is in their 20s automatically earns 30 points, while those in their early 40s get only 15. The highest number of points for a skill that is needed here is 60. You can get 60 points if you are an accountant, for example. The Department of Immigration has a list of all the skills needed in Australia. Here are some of those that earn 60 points. Reader: Child-car co-ordinator; Sales and marketing manager; Accountant; Architect; Chiropractor; Computing professional; Dentist; Engineer; Surgeon; Nurse; Cook; Baker; Boat-builder and repairer; Butter-maker or cheese-maker; Hairdresser; Signwriter. Hagar Cohen: Many skills earn fewer than 60 points. There will be a link on the Background Briefing website to the full list of skills and the points each earns. Here are some of those that earn 40 or 50 points: Reader: Company secretary; Agricultural scientist; Anatomist; Art teacher; Biochemist; Copywriter; Drug and Alcohol counsellor; Electorate officer; Historian; Marine biologist; Television journalist; Real estate salesperson; Ambulance officer; Futures trader; Massage therapist. Hagar Cohen: Most people who migrate to Australia permanently, do so independently and all the points needed are collated in their home country. Some come as migrants sponsored by the State or an employer. Another way (and this method is increasing) is to come here to study in a course that´s worth 60 points, and then to apply for permanent residency. These international students who don´t have good communication skills in English are finding it hardest to get skilled work. Many end up living in overcrowded apartments, and doing work which locals won´t do. Australia is taking in far too many people under this system, says Dr Bob Birrell. Bob Birrell: Given the way the system is working, it´s far too high. Hagar Cohen: Would you say that the skilled migration scheme is really - I mean obviously it´s not addressing the national skills shortage. Would you say that it´s just a way for the government to boost population growth? Bob Birrell: Well I think it´s having that effect. I don´t think that´s the prime motive. Both the Coalition and the Labor government have responded to intense lobbying from business interests, to provide additional skilled persons, and there seems to be strong advice coming from the Treasury that in this current inflationary setting, we need additional people just to keep a lid on wage levels. Hagar Cohen: There´s an argument that says that the skilled migration program´s real agenda is to manage the size of our population, not to deal with the skills shortage. That´s why this mismatch between jobs and migrants isn´t relevant, says Dr Sev Osdowski. Sev Osdowski: We are really talking about the size of the population of Australia, whether it should be around 10-million as some people close to environment movements have suggested, or 20-million as it´s about now, or maybe 50-million as some people are proposing. So all the other battles are really proxy battles. The focus is about the size of Australia´s population for the future. Hagar Cohen: So it´s really not about addressing skilled migration, it´s more about how to regulate migration to Australia? Sev Osdowski: Yes, it´s about how to regulate in order to achieve a certain size of population. Hagar Cohen: Sev Osdowski is the former Commissioner at the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission. He thinks our population should be bigger and that´s why he says it doesn´t really matter if migrants don´t work in their chosen field. Sev Osdowski is one of Australia´s most high profile skilled migrants, but it wasn´t always easy for him. Originally a lawyer in Poland, Sev came to Australia and started working in a factory pressing plywood, because his qualifications weren´t recognised by local law firms. But he says he had a strong personality, and the skills necessary to find his way in Australian society. He admits not everyone can do this, but says educated migrants are nevertheless a great asset. Sev Osdowski: And what is also important is that they are bringing cultural skills which are transferable. They are bringing skills which are just more than technical job skills. They are bringing knowledge of modern society, how it operates, and because of it, they are able to fit much better and they are able to find other jobs and to adjust and deliver very good grounding to their children. And in a way children are the ultimate success of our immigration policy. And when you look at the participation rate of children of migrants at our universities, it is higher than for locally born Australians, so we must be doing something right. Hagar Cohen: Sev Osdowski says we should open up the migration policy to allow even more categories of skills into this country, and in this way create a larger, more educated society. Sev Osdowski: People who are able to establish themselves because of their energy, because of their ability and attitudes of go-and-getter, these kinds of people should be more welcome. And even if they go through initial difficulties, either they will go back home, or they will adjust and they will function very well. Hagar Cohen: Some people actually say that this kind of policy would be disastrous to the economy and will create a huge class of under-employment, with skilled migrants not finding work and essentially doing things like taxi-driving and working in petrol stations. Is that a matter of concern do you think? Sev Osdowski: I think it´s basically a nonsense. Taxis also have got to be driven, taxis provide very good additional source of income to many people who are settling in. I personally believe that giving people opportunities, giving people choices, the system will work, providing the basics are there. Hagar Cohen: But the Australian government insists it is only interested in bringing in those migrants who have the skills we need. It´s necessary to fuel the economy, says Immigration Minister, Chris Evans. Chris Evans: We´re not going to be bringing in under the skilled migration program, people whose skills are not needed in the economy. That would just consign them to unemployment or underemployment. What we´re trying to do is bring in the skills we need. The skills list provides the basis for that immigration program, and then we try and match applicants up with those particular skills needs. Reader: Cook; Baker; Boat-builder and repairer; Butter-maker or cheese-maker; Hairdresser; Signwriter. Hagar Cohen: Cooking and hairdressing courses, which earn 60 points, are in great demand by students from overseas because they are considered easy, and relatively cheap. After graduation and a certain amount of employment, the student can more easily be granted PR, Permanent Residency. Dr Bob Birrell. Bob Birrell: The number of commencements in the hospitality area, which is mainly cooking and hairdressing, has jumped from about 10,000 in 2005 to just over 30,000 in 2007. This means that by the end of this year, we´ll have the order of 15,000 cooks and hairdressers seeking permanent residence. Now that is ridiculous, because it means that large numbers of them are not going to end up as cooks or hairdressers anyway, partly because they won´t have the skills necessary to get employment, and in some cases they never intended to be cooks or hairdressers anyway. So this outcome is making something of a monkey out of the immigration system. Hagar Cohen: Are you saying that at the heart of it, those cooking and hairdressing diplomas are almost becoming migration pathways? Bob Birrell: I don´t think there´s any doubt about that. Hagar Cohen: But even though numbers of international students doing cooking and hairdressing are growing at an astonishing rate, the skills shortage in these industries is chronic. There´s a Hairdressing Council, recently formed by those who are concerned about how this new trend is affecting standards in hairdressing salons. Industry spokeswoman, Ruth Browne. Ruth Browne: I am quite mortified about our industry and where it seems to be going. Providers see an opportunity to quickly open up a hairdressing section in a school that may have done hospitality, business, IT, oh, hairdressing is on the skills migration list, let´s quickly run a quick, short course and give students that opportunity. The Australian hairdressing industry is not interested in skilled migration per se, we are interested in skills. This is the Pivot Point industry salon in downtown Melbourne in the central business district, and here you have students who are actually performing on paying clients, operating the point of sale computer-based system; working and practicing and performing at trade level, because they have to get to a stage in their training where we´re preparing them to the job market ready, going out in industry ... Hagar Cohen: Ruth Browne, who runs a hairdressing college called Pivot Point, says many other colleges are taking advantages of students who want to migrate here at any cost. She calls them shopfront colleges, because they offer little more than a piece of paper at the end. For students, that piece of paper is crucial in the process of qualifying for permanent residency. To graduate with a trade certificate, students need to work for 900 hours in their chosen field, but in reality many overseas students find it hard to get work experience in salons, let alone 900 hours of it. What´s happening as a result is a scam. Some unethical colleges in effect sell the students a certificate saying they have done the required amount of work experience. Ruth Browne discovered this for herself when she went looking for people to study at her college after one of the big colleges closed down. Students asked her how much they would have to pay to get work experience. Ruth Browne: Yes, that was - I was quite perplexed about that, because students did ask me what was the price of the work component unit. What they were actually referring to, if they went out to a salon and worked, was there going to be a cost for them for that. And students are actually paying for the privilege to be able to prove that they´ve actually done that 900 hours. So that´s something that we as a group, the regulators, the providers, the government bodies, we need to look at, and we need to be aware that that is happening. Hagar Cohen: The college that Ruth Browne visited after it closed down, also had courses in cookery and business management. Background Briefing tracked down one ex-student who wants to be called Ranu. She had been a nurse back in her home country of India, but the education agent there had told her she should try to get to Australia by studying to be a cook. Later she realised this advice was only given to her because her particular agent was paid a good commission from cooking schools. Ranu: ... that I was crazy to come to Australia. We don´t know who can apply for Australia, there are a lot of agents. By chance, my agent recommended me, `You can go easy by commercial cookery, and after that you can get PR, and you can do everything you want to do.´ Hagar Cohen: And that´s why you decided to do cookery? Ranu: Yes. Hagar Cohen: Did you ever have plans to become a chef after you finished the course? Ranu: No, no, no, I don´t have the plan, because from birth we are chefs in my home. Hagar Cohen: Ranu has now switched to doing a course in community welfare at TAFE. In a Melbourne taxi, Background Briefing got into conversation with a Pakistani taxi driver who revealed that he´s been studying printing and graphic arts, but has not had any work experience. Instead, he will just pay money, a large amount as you´ll hear, for a certificate. Taxi driver: Most of the students, they look around for a job but it´s impossible for them to get jobs, so the other way only is to spend money, or to find a person who takes money from them, like $7,000 to $8,000 and give them an experience. Hagar Cohen: So what are you going to do? Are you going to do that too? Taxi driver: Yes, for permanent residency, it´s not big money. So it´s not easy to get 900 hours experience for example, if you apply for a job. There are a lot of students, there are a lot of people who are waiting for the response from different organisations, but no-one replies. So for this purpose they look around; if they are ready to pay money if someone gives them experience, in any condition, if the owner is ready to give you a job, and if he takes $4,000, if he demands $5,000, $6,000, students are even ready to pay that amount also. Hagar Cohen: While that cab driver was from Pakistan, Sam is from India. We met in a local café. Sam is not his real name; he works in retail during the day and drives the taxi at night. He has an interesting story to tell about his girlfriend, who is studying hairdressing. Sam: Her college told her that you `pay me a certain amount of money, come to our college, and you can get experience from our college.´ So they actually tell the students that `give me money and we´ll give you experience´. Hagar Cohen: Is your girlfriend going to pay that money? Sam: Because she doesn´t have another choice; what can she do? Hagar Cohen: Why does she not have another choice? Sam: Because if you don´t pay money, then the college will do something wrong in her papers, try to fail her, you know because the college has every authority in terms of students. So they can actually fail the student also. So at the end if you have a fight between you and the college, you´ll always lose, so it´s better to give the money. Hagar Cohen: Sam says that many international students like him and his girlfriend have no intention to work as chefs or hairdressers once they get permanent residency, commonly called the PR. They were lured into these courses because, so the migration agents told them, there is a high likelihood that at the end, they can stay here permanently. Before coming to Australia, Sam went to an educational expo in Mumbai. He says educational reps convince students to enrol by beefing up the opportunity to become permanent residents. Sam: Ah yes, because they were emphasising on this topic, telling us that two years study was easy going on, and after two years we get permanent residency. But they didn´t tell you that what kind of work we do in the college, we´ll go to the kitchen or you will work for certain cuisines, they only really emphasis on permanent residency. Hagar Cohen: In India, you studied IT, a Bachelor´s degree in IT. Why did you come here to do cookery? It´s not very much related to IT. Sam: Yes, because I asked this question to that college stall, that college expo there. They told me that cookery is easy method to get permanent residency, and you don´t have to study, so they actually changed my mind off IT to cookery. Hagar Cohen: What do you want to do after you get your permanent residence? Sam: I want to do something in hotels, but in front desk, not in kitchen, because kitchen environment is not good. Hagar Cohen: Sam doesn´t really like being in Australia very much, but now he says if he returned home, he´d lose too much face, so he is going to stick it out. He´s hoping the work he eventually gets will have nothing to do with kitchens. Restaurant work, which means long hours and is physically hard, isn´t popular with anyone. Restaurants report they can´t keep staff, and many close down as a result. But there are growing numbers of training institutions offering cooking certificates to thousands of students. Not all of them are dodgy. Rocco Guarnaccia: There is quite a plethora of providers who offer cookery at the moment; there´s a lot of TAFE schools who offer it, and they´ve been doing it for a while. We´ve been offering commercial cookery since 1991, so we´ve been doing it for quite long time. We´ve got 12 commercial kitchens within New South Wales and Victoria. The commercial kitchens we´ve spent in excess of probably $5-million to $6-million setting the kitchens up. Hagar Cohen: Rocco Guarnaccia is Director of Education at Carrick Institute of Education. The headquarters are in Melbourne and the kitchen we were shown is a proper commercial kitchen. Most of the students are from overseas. Rocco Guarnaccia says being a chef is hard, and not an attractive career path to young people. Rocco Guarnaccia: When you´re younger, you´d like to focus more on your social life, so going to work at 6 o´clock at night, working till 2 o´clock in the morning, is pretty difficult when all your friends are ready to go out. Probably secondly also too, you get paid more working in a service station behind the counter than what you do actually as an apprentice chef. Hagar Cohen: It doesn´t really matter that many international students don´t end up working in restaurants, says Rocco Guarnaccia, because they contribute to the economy in other ways. Rocco Guarnaccia: We need more people in this country, regardless if they´re cooks or if they´re driving taxis or if they´re working behind the counter somewhere. We need people to be in the country to be able to contribute to the community, because at the moment, we´re not having enough babies to sustain our future for the next 10, 20 years. Hagar Cohen: Rocco Guarnaccia says their cooking classes are only responding to ever-growing demands from industry. So many trained cooks are going overseas or end up working in other jobs, that the shortage of cooks remains dire. Rocco Guarnaccia: We´ve seen a survey recently saying that over 2,000 chefs are exported from Australia to overseas, but yet we still only end up producing about 200 chefs a year, so we are well under. It gets to the stage where they are screaming out for chefs. Hagar Cohen: So how many chefs and cooks do you train here each year? Rocco Guarnaccia: Between our campuses around Australia, we train anywhere between 3,500 to 4,000 chefs a year, going to industry. Hagar Cohen: What percentage of your students are international students? Rocco Guarnaccia: At the moment I´d say between our campuses Australia-wide, we´ve probably got 67% of our students are international students. Hagar Cohen: So pretty much your business relies on international students? Rocco Guarnaccia: It is a very big focus of it. Hagar Cohen: One issue that comes up time and again when looking at why so many skilled migrants don´t get work, is their level of English. The Australian government approves an exam called the International English Language Testing System. IELTS for short. This tests abilities in reading, writing, listening and speaking. But those who pass this exam still find that their English may not be good enough to get them a job in their chosen field. For that reason, Matthew Reede opened an English school called Performance English. GREETINGS Hagar Cohen: It teaches communications skills for the workplace. Being able to interact with other people at work takes more than language skills. There are many behavioural subtleties at play when we speak, which English-born speakers tend to take for granted. Matthew Reede. Matthew Reede: It´s not just English. We talk about form and content. Content is the words, and form is everything else that goes with the words to infer meaning. Things like sounds, facial expressions, eye contact, body language, all these things are incorporated in what we would call communication. So vocabulary, the type of vocabulary you´re using, formal, informal, pub language etc., it´s different for every different type of occasion. Hagar Cohen: Cultural differences also put skilled migrants at a disadvantage when doing a job interview, for example. Matthew Reede: Australian cultural values of independence, practicality, forthrightness that make us gregarious self-starters that shoot from the hip, won´t necessarily be reflected in the overseas candidates that the employers are interviewing. Whereas they may have come from a collective, hierarchical, symbolic society that respects authority, and is waiting to be shown some guidance from their management. Hagar Cohen: So can you think about a practical example? Matthew Reede: Well I mean, the most common answer is no answer at all, a nervous grin or a smile, that the candidate not actually knowing how to answer that question. `Where do you want to be in five years?´ for example. An Australian candidate may explicitly go out and state their goals. It may be seen by an Asian candidate to be quite boastful and inappropriate with somebody of a more senior rank than them. They´ll be looking for guidance from that person and they´ll be quite self-deprecating and unassuming in the way they´ll respond. So they won´t actually know how to answer the question. Kevin Wang: I have confidence with my spoken English. Some accountants, some .... Hagar Cohen: Most of Kevin Wang´s friends have gone back to China, but Kevin himself wants to try to make a go of it here. This is despite the fact that though he is now a qualified accountant, he still can only find casual jobs earning about $8 an hour. Kevin Wang: I was considering coming back to my motherland, China, to find a job if I cannot get a job that satisfied me here. Ninety-percent of my friends, my classmates, they already go back. Although they got their permanent resident visa, yes, it´s kind of sad. Hagar Cohen: Why do you think about going back? Why do you think so many of your friends went back to China? Kevin Wang: Oh, I think just like me, they think they cannot find an accounting-related job, so they´re going back. Hagar Cohen: So what do you think you´ll do? Kevin Wang: First I´ll try my best to survive here. I don´t want to waste this visa. I know here the government have some high expectation from the skilled migrants, so I´ll try my best to find a job here. Hagar Cohen: Kevin Wang graduated at the University of Technology in Sydney and he says that there are many Chinese students there. It was easier and more comfortable to mix with other Mandarin speakers than to mix with his English-speaking classmates. Though, even at the time, he knew there was something not quite right about it. Kevin Wang: Sometimes I feel quite strange, because I like to stand in other people´s position to think. I just think how, if a local Australian sees all this, how will he think? Like here in Australia, here is not Chinese. Now you can get close, but you cannot ignore others, especially the local Australians. Everything you do together. It should be like harmony. Hagar Cohen: Why do you think this is a problem? Kevin Wang: It means you´ve limited yourself when you search for a job. When we start to try and search for a job, because you always stay in the small circle with all the Chinese-related people. Hagar Cohen: Accounting is by far the most popular profession for international students. Their number has grown in the past decade by 300%. But the profession is still screaming out for employees. There´s something wrong in the mix. CEO of the Institute of Chartered Accountants is Graham Meyer. Graham Meyer: The principal challenge I think is around language. Generally the international students, if they´re coming to Australia, they are pretty focused and pretty determined to do extremely well. And we find that in terms of their effort in getting through the degree, it´s very high. Where they do get limited, and it keeps coming back to this, is around the communication, the grasp of English language. But not just conversational English language, it´s the business language that is the real challenge for them. Hagar Cohen: In other cases, Graham Meyer says that the nationality of job candidates can work against them. Graham Meyer: You always very guilty when people talk about discrimination, and people find it hard to get a job because of their background or their culture and so on. But it is a reality that I think we do have to face up to, and it is a question that I´ve been asking our members quite a lot over the last 12 months or so. My view is that among the younger members of the profession, it´s not an issue, I mean they´re so multicultural. But among some of the older members of the profession there still is a bit of a reluctance to bring on people who aren´t, as they would say, Australian, or don´t have a good grasp of the language. So it´s not something you´d want to readily admit to, but I think it is an issue that does need to be faced, and it is part of the education that we need to go through. Hagar Cohen: Australia used to be a highly sought-after destination for migrants, but as the global economies change, there are skilled and well-paid jobs in countries that used to be called Third World. We are now in a very competitive global marketplace for skilled work, says Graham Meyer. Graham Meyer: So you get this circle going around of the demand right across the globe. And if Australia is going to remain a global player, then we have to play on the global market, we have to have it so that people can come into Australia and practice as an accountant or as a Chief Financial Officer. If we don´t, then we´ll be left out of the global game. Hagar Cohen: Though having good English is essential when looking for a good job, even that doesn´t always work. Mike Walker and his wife Marty, both in their late 40s, had management positions in their home country, South Africa. They first went to England and then migrated to Australia where Mike was sure he would get work as an expert in IT and business management. They chose Brisbane as their new home. But after four years in Australia, neither Marty nor Mike have found professional work. Mike Walker: When we got here, my expectation was that it wouldn´t be that long before something happened. But it didn´t. And the weeks became months, and the months as it turns out, have become years. Hagar Cohen: I understand that you´ve sent out hundreds of job applications throughout the years; how many interviews did you get? Mike Walker: I had one, which turned out to be a mistake, because the particular company thought I was a customer, and excluding that, I´ve had only one. Hagar Cohen: Once you realised that it was really hard to find a job at your professional level, you started applying for the less qualified jobs? Mike Walker: One comes to mind. I applied for a caravan salesman job, I applied for any job that had supervisor or manager or anything like that behind it and in the end we got no response from those, and in the end we wound up working on farms. Hagar Cohen: Mike Walker agreed to send us his resume and we showed it to a very senior IT executive for an opinion as to why Mike never even got an interview. After studying the resume carefully, our IT executive said that in some ways the resume wasn´t explicit enough. But the most obvious reason was that Mike´s qualifications and experience were too high-level for most of the work available in IT. Mike´s wife, Marty, had experience as an office worker in health clubs, but in Australia she had to do outdoor work. Marty Walker: It was pretty hard, considering you´ve got experience to go and do office work and earn a decent income, it was pretty hard. But then on the other hand it´s not too bad, because it´s income. Mike Walker: My wife got a job at a mushroom farm, and I got a job on a strawberry farm, and it was hard labour. Literally just out in the field, picking fruit, and you do your job, you do seven days a week, wind, rain, doesn´t make any difference, you just sit there and pick. And in my wife´s case she sat there and plucked mushrooms. Hagar Cohen: Mike Walker is in his late 40s, and that too might be working against him. Toby Marshall is Director of the Sydney-based recruitment agency, Abacus. Toby Marshall: The most common job brief that a recruitment agency will get, is that they want someone with 3 to 4 years experience, which means post-graduation, so they are sort of like 27 years old, they want them no older than about 35, maybe 40. Hagar Cohen: There are plenty of young managers in the workforce, says Toby, and they don´t want to supervise older people who often have more work experience than them. But if people like Mike Walker would be considered for job interviews, Australia´s skills shortage wouldn´t be as bad. Toby Marshall. Toby Marshall: I would argue that there are large untapped pools of talent in this country. And until we tap into those pools, and get those people working in the right jobs, not just any job, but the right job, then the need for more and more skilled migration becomes a little bit silly, because we´ve got skilled migrants over a lot of whom are doing jobs that are beneath them. Hagar Cohen: Overt discrimination or reasons of nationality or age are against our Anti-discrimination laws. But it happens, says Toby Marshall. Toby Marshall: Any recruitment agency that´s being honest, and believe me, I go to a lot of recruitment conferences, and we´re all honest when we´re sitting around talking in a room, that our clients constantly give us briefs that break that law. Constantly. Hagar Cohen: Not even giving people an interview is a mistake, and a lot of good people are slipping through the net, says Toby Marshall. Toby Marshall: I try my hardest to broaden every single brief I can get. Now we can argue with the client as much as we like, but don´t forget, we are paid by the client. I can argue for quite a while, but there´s a limit. It´s funny how watching their eyes sort of dart away, their whole persona goes, `I´m not interested in this´. They close a resume in about 3 seconds. Hagar Cohen: Though it´s obviously hard for older people to land a good job, international students are doing it toughest. For many it´s the first time out of home, and finding professional work can be very stressful. There have been several media stories in the past week about scams and cheats taking advantage of full-fee paying international students. The Age newspaper reports about the cash for certificate scam, where a Melbourne-based college charged thousands of dollars from students in return for a fake certificate. Also in the headlines in Sydney, a private provider in the CBD was forced to shut its doors for illegal behaviour. The Sydney International College of Business was found to have overcrowded classrooms, and kitchens without proper ventilation. Many of the cooking students couldn´t even access a kitchen for a period of almost one year. From Monash University, Dr Bob Birrell says he´s not surprised. Bob Birrell: We´re relying on private providers, many of whom have set up recently with an eye to gaining a share of the overseas student market, we´re relying on them to attest that the students of cooking or hairdressing have actually achieved trade-level skills. There´s no check on the actual standard of the students. Now that just leaves the system wide open to abuse. Hagar Cohen: Can you give me a theoretical example of what could happen and how could someone exploit this system? Bob Birrell: There´s no theory here, it´s clear that it is happening, that providers whose market is the overseas student who wishes to get an accreditation as a threshold entry into permanent residence, has a very strong vested interest in providing the required certification, because that´s after all, what he or she is selling. Hagar Cohen: The Australian government does acknowledge that there are problems in some areas. There have been moves, for example, to toughen up the English language test and organise professional internships for international graduates. But they say on the whole it´s working well. Minister Chris Evans. Chris Evans: Well the skilled migration outcomes are very good. We´ve got higher employment levels the skilled migration program, than we have of the more broad Australian population. I think the question is whether or not all of those people coming in are ending up in the areas that best match their skills. And that´s part of the problem. Hagar Cohen: In all of this, some people from overseas make it through in the most surprising ways. Not everyone can do it, but some of those with initiative and good English and drive, find their way. Mikhil: OK, this is a shop, as you can see, and we´ve got these bikes, five bikes in the kitchen, we put them in at night. In the morning we take them out, display outside so then we can use this area to prep over there. So we cut, chop vegetables and get everything ready. And the noise that you can hear is the guys now cleaning the tiffins. Hagar Cohen: We´re in an unusual commercial kitchen in Melbourne. There are big pots filled with yellow curry, hundreds of plastic containers, and tricycles are parked right next to the ovens. It´s a hot curry delivery business, what in India is called Tiffin Service. Mikhil, a skilled migrant from India, started it a year ago. He´s been in Australia for ten years, all that time remembering how he and his brother used to deliver tiffins to factory owners around Mumbai. Mikhil: Yes, they do about 200,000 a day in Mumbai, without a single error. Hagar Cohen: Which is where you´re from? Mikhil: Yes, I am born and brought up in Mumbai, 20 years of my life in Mumbai and then we did this as a small family business for about a few months. Mum was the cook, and we used to be the boys riding on the bicycles. Hagar Cohen: In Melbourne there is also work for delivery people who navigate the city traffic with tricycles. Mikhil: So during the day they go out, deliver it. In the evening they come back and then another set of guys start washing them. Because they´re re-usable containers. What we do is, customers go online, order some food and then what they do after that, is they pay for it online as well. They get their lunch delivered, they eat it, leave it outside, we go and pick it up back on the tricycle, and we come back, wash them, for then for the next day keep it all ready like these stacked-up shelves. Hagar Cohen: Mikhil says that during his ten years in Australia, he made a point of spending a lot of his time with people who were born here and that´s why he has good English skills and understands Australian culture. Selling hot curry lunches delivered by tricycles, came naturally. Mikhil: Compared to what we were last year, started with about 15 lunches a day, and now we´re doing anywhere between 400 to 600 a day. Very good, as opposed to - I mean we are ambitious, we would like to do more. But having said that, next year looks very, very promising. I mean already we´ve got a lot of things in the pipeline to do. Background Briefing´s Co-ordinating Producer is Linda McGinness. Research, by Anna Whitfeld. Technical production this week is by Timothy Nicastri. The Executive Producer is Kirsten Garrett. I´m Hagar Cohen and this is ABC Radio National. THEME read less
2008-08-10 No podcast because of copyright restrictions
Sat August 09 2008
Because of copyright restrictions this week's Background Briefing is not available as podcast. read less
